Comments on: JSF and Mobile Web Applications — Part 1: What looks good on paper doesn’t always work out http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/ "Science is a wonderful thing if one does not have to earn one's living at it" -- Albert Einstein Tue, 06 Jan 2009 21:21:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Raimund Schatz http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-52526 Raimund Schatz Sun, 17 Feb 2008 09:17:11 +0000 http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-52526 Thanks Marc! The ericsson mobile-jsf kit looks really really promising. I hope that I can free someone up in team in order to check it out. Has anybody already made some experiences with integrating Mobile-JSF with SEAM? Regards, Raimund Thanks Marc! The ericsson mobile-jsf kit looks really really promising. I hope that I can free someone up in team in order to check it out.

Has anybody already made some experiences with integrating Mobile-JSF with SEAM?

Regards, Raimund

]]> By: Marc Wilhelm http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-43778 Marc Wilhelm Fri, 30 Nov 2007 13:21:02 +0000 http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-43778 Michael, You migh want to look into mobile-jsf rendererkit from ericsson: http://www.ericsson.com/mobilityworld/sub/open/technologies/open_development_tips/tools/mobile_jsf_kit It follows the one source/multiple targets approach... Regards, Marc Michael,

You migh want to look into mobile-jsf rendererkit from ericsson: http://www.ericsson.com/mobilityworld/sub/open/technologies/open_development_tips/tools/mobile_jsf_kit

It follows the one source/multiple targets approach…

Regards,
Marc

]]> By: Michael Yuan http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-35101 Michael Yuan Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:19:01 +0000 http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-35101 Don, You might want to look into Facelets -- it provides per-tag templates. It might be something that you want! cheers Michael Don,

You might want to look into Facelets — it provides per-tag templates. It might be something that you want!

cheers
Michael

]]> By: Michael Yuan http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-35100 Michael Yuan Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:16:54 +0000 http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-35100 Frank, Thanks for the comment! Mojasef does look like a great project! cheers Michael Frank,

Thanks for the comment! Mojasef does look like a great project!

cheers
Michael

]]> By: Frank Carver http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-35060 Frank Carver Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:39:04 +0000 http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-35060 Don Kittle wrote: <i>For each JSF tag, I wish one could specify a template. Certain tags like grids and tables need several fragments as part of the template (top, ‘middle’ and bottom parts). I wish the templates themselves would support EL. I wish one could plug in a TagTemplateResolver so that templates could be resolved at runtime (return different fragments depending on device, website ‘branding’, etc). This would facilitate theming JSF based sites in a very simple, extensible way in addition to supporting multiple devices easily.</i> We don't use JSF, but this is exactly the approach we use for the combined web/mobile portals that we produce at iO Global. We use <a href='http://mojasef.stringtree.org/' rel="nofollow">Mojasef</a> which allows dynamic selection of progressively finer-detailed markup fragments. There is absolutely no difference between the Java code for web and WAP flavours, it's all done by constructing returned pages from template fragments. Don Kittle wrote: For each JSF tag, I wish one could specify a template. Certain tags like grids and tables need several fragments as part of the template (top, ‘middle’ and bottom parts). I wish the templates themselves would support EL. I wish one could plug in a TagTemplateResolver so that templates could be resolved at runtime (return different fragments depending on device, website ‘branding’, etc). This would facilitate theming JSF based sites in a very simple, extensible way in addition to supporting multiple devices easily.

We don’t use JSF, but this is exactly the approach we use for the combined web/mobile portals that we produce at iO Global. We use Mojasef which allows dynamic selection of progressively finer-detailed markup fragments. There is absolutely no difference between the Java code for web and WAP flavours, it’s all done by constructing returned pages from template fragments.

]]> By: Michael Yuan http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-35027 Michael Yuan Wed, 26 Sep 2007 04:10:06 +0000 http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-35027 Dan, To my knowledge, the original JSF marketing message was exactly that: "generate multiple content outputs from the <b>same page</b> so that you can write once and access it everywhere." The approach you mentioned obviously makes more sense and it is indeed how ASP.Net is used in the mobile world. ASP.Net advocates that you can drag and drop the same UI controls onto the regular web page and a mobile web page. It will render differently depending on the device. However, ASP.Net has very good drag-and-drop UI designers for a variety of screen sizes, and more importantly, has a renderer that actually works ... cheers Michael Dan,

To my knowledge, the original JSF marketing message was exactly that: “generate multiple content outputs from the same page so that you can write once and access it everywhere.”

The approach you mentioned obviously makes more sense and it is indeed how ASP.Net is used in the mobile world. ASP.Net advocates that you can drag and drop the same UI controls onto the regular web page and a mobile web page. It will render differently depending on the device.

However, ASP.Net has very good drag-and-drop UI designers for a variety of screen sizes, and more importantly, has a renderer that actually works …

cheers
Michael

]]> By: Michael Yuan http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-35025 Michael Yuan Wed, 26 Sep 2007 03:58:42 +0000 http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-35025 Sudhir, I have not personally used Trindad. However, I'd like to note that the web browsers on PDAs are actually quite close to desktop web browsers -- you still need to worry about screen sizes etc. but you do not typically need a different markup language. cheers Michael Sudhir,

I have not personally used Trindad. However, I’d like to note that the web browsers on PDAs are actually quite close to desktop web browsers — you still need to worry about screen sizes etc. but you do not typically need a different markup language.

cheers
Michael

]]> By: Dan Allen http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-35023 Dan Allen Wed, 26 Sep 2007 03:48:29 +0000 http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-35023 Perhaps I am not reading into the spec enough, but I don't think anyone really expected to be able to use the *same* Facelet template (or JSP if you are masochistic) to render different output formats. I think the idea is that you can use the same familiar UI components that render different markups. For instance, you might have a rating widget () that renders in one way for HTML but another way for WML or XUL. The actions may even be queued differently, in one case Ajax, in the other a regular form submit. The developer doesn't have to shift their mindset since the name and attributes of the tag is still the same. I guess you *could* assume the design was to support the exact same template, but it is so laughable that most people just didn't take it seriously. Dan Perhaps I am not reading into the spec enough, but I don’t think anyone really expected to be able to use the *same* Facelet template (or JSP if you are masochistic) to render different output formats. I think the idea is that you can use the same familiar UI components that render different markups. For instance, you might have a rating widget () that renders in one way for HTML but another way for WML or XUL. The actions may even be queued differently, in one case Ajax, in the other a regular form submit. The developer doesn’t have to shift their mindset since the name and attributes of the tag is still the same.

I guess you *could* assume the design was to support the exact same template, but it is so laughable that most people just didn’t take it seriously.

Dan

]]> By: Sudhir http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-35007 Sudhir Wed, 26 Sep 2007 01:18:42 +0000 http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-35007 Michael, Thanks for kicking off this . We will be waiting for your future posts. We are using Trinidad JSf library and experimenting how much it would help in delivering mobile content. Trinidad has ( as you might know ) , default PDA support and we are trying to control sizes of the components using PDA skin. It would be great to see some inputs on above approach , any other better libraries or Mobile support . Thanks again. Michael, Thanks for kicking off this . We will be waiting for your future posts. We are using Trinidad JSf library and experimenting how much it would help in delivering mobile content. Trinidad has ( as you might know ) , default PDA support and we are trying to control sizes of the components using PDA skin.
It would be great to see some inputs on above approach , any other better libraries or Mobile support .

Thanks again.

]]> By: Michael Yuan http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-34979 Michael Yuan Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:08:51 +0000 http://www.michaelyuan.com/blog/2007/09/25/jsf-and-mobile-web-applications-part-1-what-looks-good-on-paper-doesnt-always-work-out/#comment-34979 Thanks Don for the info! Yes, WML is hard to deal with. Fortunately, most new mobile web apps today will only need to worry about XHTML MP -- it is still a hassle to deal with device-to-device variations, but it is a lot better than WML! :) Thanks Don for the info! Yes, WML is hard to deal with. Fortunately, most new mobile web apps today will only need to worry about XHTML MP — it is still a hassle to deal with device-to-device variations, but it is a lot better than WML! :)

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